Follow the Festival Lawyer on Twitter //
I know what you are thinking. What the heck’s a Festival Lawyer?
Is it a Public Defender who helps you out if you get arrested at a concert? No. (Although, to be honest, I wish I had thought of that as a job option after law school).
I’m a criminal defense attorney with a background as a former prosecutor. But I also have a background as a drummer, a DJ, and avid festivalgoer. The idea behind “The Festival Lawyer” column is to combine these backgrounds to give you legal and practical advice that will make you a safer, more responsible festivalgoer.
Advice like how to protect your rights if the police approach you at a concert. Or how to recognize the symptoms of a drug or alcohol overdose. We will talk about things like California’s Medical Marijuana laws or what to do if stopped for a DUI on your way to a concert. But mainly, the column will be focused on how we can make the Festival Experience work better for everyone as a more responsible, positive community.
As an aside, I’ve noticed that as soon as I start talking about knowing your rights, a certain percentage of people start complaining that I am somehow “teaching people how to commit crimes.”
This is dangerous nonsense. We don’t live in a police state (well, not yet anyway). As citizens it is not only our right but our duty to know and defend our Constitutional Rights and keep an eye on the police.
Anyway, let’s start with a hypothetical situation where the police stop you out of the blue in the middle of a music festival and start questioning you. They don’t say why they are stopping you but just immediately ask permission to search your person and backpack.
What should you do?
1. Like the Clash said, “Know Your Rights.”
Okay, quick criminal procedure tutorial.
In any encounter with the police, a Judge will be looking after the fact at whether the police had a right to stop you in the first place. This is because the 4th Amendment of the Constitution says that you have a right as a citizen to freely go about your business unless the police can show they had a belief you were engaged in criminal activity.
What the police have to show to a Judge later depends completely on whether the Judge finds that you were being “arrested”, “detained” or were “free to leave”.
If the police arrest you, they have to show they had “Probable Cause” to believe you were committing a crime.
On the other hand, the police will probably argue that they weren’t arresting you but just “detaining” you. A “detention” is a situation where the police stop you briefly while they investigate a crime but haven’t arrested you yet. In a detention, the police have a much lower burden of proof. They only have to show a “reasonable suspicion” as to why they were detaining you. Or the police may argue that their entire contact with you was just a “consensual encounter” where you were free to go at anytime. In a consensual encounter, they don’t really need to justify why they stopped you because they were just talking to you and you were “free to leave”, (Because people always feel free to walk away when contacted by the police, right?)
2. Remember the Festival Lawyer’s Key Phrases.
So knowing the above, what should you do If a cop stops you?
The first question out of your mouth should be, “Am I being detained?” Then, “Why? What am being stopped for? Am I free to go, or am I under arrest?”
Memorize this. Repeat it out loud: “Am I being detained? Why? Am I free to go, or am I under arrest?”
Yes I am aware that like the cop in 99 Problems, the cop may not appreciate you being so “sharp as a tack” and view you as a potential troublemaker.
So your job in this situation is to keep calm and cool. Be respectful but clear and firm in what you are saying. It is completely reasonable (and legal) to ask why you are being stopped and whether you are free to go. By asking from the start if you are under arrest or free to leave you are forcing the officer to tell you exactly what is happening and whether you are a suspect.
3. Miranda Rights: Myths vs. Reality
One of the most common urban myths out there is that the police have to read you your Miranda rights or the arrest gets thrown out of court.
Not true. The police don’t have to read you these rights. In fact, the police have the right to completely lie to you in any interview. The only time they have to read Miranda rights is if:
- A) You are under arrest
- B) They want to use a statement you made after being arrested in court against you.
The Right against Self Incrimination is in the Bill of Rights for a reason. USE IT. You should NEVER give a statement to the police without a lawyer. Period. No exceptions.
In the above scenario, questions like “whose backpack is this?” should be answered with a firm, “Officer, I am choosing to remain silent. I want a lawyer.”
4. Do not give the authorities consent to search you.
One other major Constitutional right you have is the right to be free from an unlawful search of your person and property.
So lets say you are already in a Festival when the police approach you. They won’t let you leave and ask for permission to search your backpack. (Obviously, security has a right to search you as you enter a festival and go through their initial security screening.)
Cops always make it seem like you’re some kind of a criminal if you express the slightest hesitation about having your property searched without a warrant. You can expect to hear an “If you have nothing to hide, why can’t we search your stuff?” type of verbal approach from the cops.
Know this…If the police are asking you permission to search you or your property, it usually means they know they are making an illegal search. Let that sink in for a second. When the police ask you “Can I search this bag?”, they KNOW they are asking you to let them make a search they are not legally entitled to make.
My advice? Respectfully tell the police officer, “I’m not giving you consent to search my property.” If they ask what you have to hide, don’t argue with them. Simply say again, “Officer, I’m sorry I’m not giving you consent to search my person or my property. If I’m free to leave I’d like to leave. If not, I’d like a lawyer please…”
At this point, they can still search you if they have probable cause, but what you’ve done with your statements is make them declare their reason for doing so and force them to show they are legally entitled to search you.
5. Document the Encounter.
In future columns we are going to talk a lot about what a Festival Buddy is and what their responsibilities are. In this scenario, the Festival Buddy’s job isn’t to yell “Hey man leave him alone” or drunkenly argue with the cops. Festival Buddy’s job is to whip out his or cell phone and document the entire encounter.
SPOILER ALERT – COPS REALLY FREAKING HATE THIS. The best thing to happen to Civil Liberties in this country was the invention of the cell phone camera and YouTube. But just bear in mind, cops will do just about anything to avoid having you upload your video of them on YouTube or on Social Media.
This is an area where your own comfort level has to dictate how far you push it. Legally, since you are in a public place you are completely entitled to film and record what is happening. But cops will sometimes argue that you are “interfering with an investigation” and threaten to arrest you. Or if you have had anything to drink they will suddenly decide that you are “publicly intoxicated” and try to arrest you. As a Festival Buddy you have to decide if you can safely film what is happening. That’s because your other job as FB is to stay out of custody and post bail and let your buddy’s family know he just got arrested.
I suggest that you say the following if cops order you to turn off your camera.
“Officer, I’m not interfering with you in any way. I am just documenting this arrest. This is a public place and I’m entitled to record this”.
While making this statement, I would make a show of backing up and getting out of the way to prove that you are not interfering but just observing.
If that doesn’t work and your Latin is good you can just tell them, “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes” (pssst…that’s a joke but go ahead and Google it kids)
If things get crazier, be sure to get footage of the cop screaming “turn that camera off” before you turn it off. Everyone (You Tube, Media, Juries, Internal Affairs) loves footage of cops screaming “turn off that camera” to a calm person who is doing nothing but saying “I’m not interfering, just watching to make sure you are following the law.”
Okay that’s it for this column. Be sure to follow me on Twitter @Festivallawyer and be sure to tweet at me for comments on this story or future story ideas. I’ll be back in two weeks with a new column!
Read the Festival Lawyer’s follow up article, highlighting the best reactions and responding to the most pertinent questions from this article.
BIO – The Festival Lawyer is not a professional writer (duh). I am also not a journalist or concert promoter. I am just a fan who has gone to concerts all my life. I like to say that I’ve gone to a “saw Pink Floyd, The Clash, White Stripes before they broke up” and “I wish I had started wearing ear plugs a long time ago” years-worth of concerts. I’m hoping you will consider The Festival Lawyer your legal spirit guide.
Like Showbams on Facebook and follow Showbams on twitter to get more advice from the Festival Lawyer and win free tickets to shows.
are the cops allowed to assist medical personel in amedical tent at a festival in the ed tent to b exact later found out i was in a altered atate of mind ketamine od
HR
Your advice only helps in the worst situations, and your advice is much more likely to put someone into the worst situation. This is better advice:
1) Be nice
2) Be respectful
3) Be compliant
There police are just trying to contain the madness. There are teeming hordes of drunk people for them to deal with. As soon as they see you compliant and harmless they will move along. Be. Nice.
David,
Your first two points are valid. Your third point is horrible advice. Never consent to being detained, frisked or searched. Question the basis for any of these activities. Record the encounter. Do not allow the USA to become more of a police state than it already is. Politely insist on your constitutional right. It’s not the safest thing to do, it should be every citizen’s duty.
I had a friend that was arrested by undercover at a rave but the way they took him I think was wrong they told the group of people we were with that they saw him touch a girl. They did say they were coos or anything they pushed use away and say stay out of it. They took him and try to cover up that they arrested him and the night we balled him out I asked did they ever read you Miranda right he said nope. They just took me wrote a report and I was sent to Jail
The police DO NOT have to read you your Miranda warning when you are arrested. The are also under no obligation to give you any information when they arrest your friend.
I really like your approach here. Reasonable advice for the ones who are spun out like research monkeys.
It’s difficult to find well-informed people in this particular subject, but you seem
like you know what you’re talking about! Thanks
Here’s a real scenario, it happened in 2003 in Nashville on the way to Bonnaroo.
7 of us had rented an RV and drove to Bonnaroo. Once we were in Nashville, we passed an “unmarked” (marked, but not obvious from a distance) cop parked on the grass along the highway with an unmarked police SUV sitting next to him.
When we went by the cops, I checked my speed and we were doing the speed limit. I looked in the mirror and saw the cop pull out as we passed him. He pulled in behind me, followed me for a few minutes, then pulled me over.
Now, I know the best way out of trouble with the cops is to be pleasant and polite. It’s worked many times. I have not had a ticket in over 20 years, but I got a few written warnings. So when he motioned me out of the RV, I went back and spoke to him nicely. I gave him my license. He said I was straddling lanes. However, we had another car with us and they were following us the entire way, they did not stop when we were pulled over, instead they went to the next exit and waited for a call from one of us. They said I was not straddling lanes anywhere on the entire 6 hour drive.
The cop told me to get back in the RV and close all the windows. I asked why he we had to close the windows. His response was because he didn’t want us hit by road debris. That surprised me, it was 90+ degrees, the RV was turned off, so there was no A/C and this asshole ordered me to roll up the windows.
About 2-3 minutes later, the SUV who was parked with the cop that pulled me over, pulled up. He had a dog. He took the dog around the RV, jerked the dogs leash and the dog obediently scratched at the RV signaling he found drugs.
So, then the cop comes back, tells me to get out of the RV, pats me down and puts me onto the shoulder of the road (where I could get hit by road debris!) and explains that the dog has indicated there is drugs in the RV and they are going to search it. No warrant. Maybe one of the other dozen or so cops who showed up for the search brought along the warrant, but I never saw it. And they didn’t wait for any other cops to show before they started pulling the other people out of the RV and searched them all.
Then they entered the RV and proceeded to search it for the next 2 hours. They found that 2 of the people in the RV had 2 very small bags of pot in their belongings. Both times they found a baggie, they came out and said “who’s is this? If no one claims it you are all going to jail”, so the owners promptly gave themselves up.
When they were finished, they may have realized they messed up because when a supervisor came to the scene and saw they had found less than a 1/4 oz of pot between all of us, he told them to let us go. They gave misdemeanor tickets to the 2 people who claimed the pot. We had to stop at the courthouse on Monday so they could take care of the tickets before we left. They had to go back for court about a month later.
In retrospect, it was quite obvious that the entire stop was bogus. The cop who pulled me over said it was for straddling lanes, but as we were standing on the shoulder while they were searching the RV, the cop guarding us pointed to the license plate on the rental RV which had a dealer plate bracket framing the plate for the rental place. It covered part of the state name on the plate. That cop said we were pulled over for that. I didn’t ask him why we were pulled over, he volunteered that info. I was like, “Oh, really?”.
Also, the dog seemed to be trained to respond to its handler. I was watching the cop & dog thru the rear view mirrors, and the cop clearly signaled the dog with his leash just before the dog started signaling that he found drugs.
I also found out while waiting on the side of the road that we were not pulled over by traffic cops, but a special unit of the Nashville PD called the Drug Interdiction Task Force. So one can only assume, they were shooting fish in a barrel and just waiting for the next RV to drive by so they could pull it over and search it. They made alot of allusions to only drug dealers can afford RVs like the one we were in (It clearly had the rental place’s information all over the back). I explained to them that there were 7 of us splitting costs and that with gas, mileage and other rental charges, it came to less than $200 per person, about the same price as 3 nights in a hotel. It’s not like were were a bunch of kids. We were in our 30s and had real day jobs.
I suppose if I had the thousands of dollars lying around to hire a lawyer, and the time to travel back (6 hour one way drive) for court dates and hearings, etc, I could have made a big stink based on the shady reasons for the traffic stop. And I would only have a case if there was dash cam video in the patrol car that pulled me over. Both cops who told me the two different reasons we were pulled over said it in front of the cruiser. And if there was video, it would have shown I was not straddling lanes. If I did make a stink and there was a dash cam in the car, you can be assured it would be accidentally erased as soon as the subpoena arrived.
I know these were shady cops who will do whatever they can get away with because they know no one will question them, but what can be done in a situation like this with a corrupt PD that will make things up for an excuse to search you? It’s your word against the cops and when that gets to a judge, the cop’s word wins.
If a dog hits on your car, does that give them probable cause to search without a warrant?
Did the cop have any right to order me to roll up the windows?
The RV was brand new when we picked it up. It had 500 break in miles on it. We were the first rental. They caused $500 in damage to the cabinet/closet doors. When they let us go, they told us of the damage, then one of them commented that we should just forget about the whole thing and we are lucky they are letting us go and we could all be going to jail.
I ended up getting a warning for straddling lanes.
I have not stepped foot in Tennessee since then, and there is no way in hell I will let one penny of my money be spent in that state ever again.
It’s like that all over the south tho. I thought about the 12 hour drive to NOLA for Jazz Fest this year, but decided against it since I would have to drive thru bumfuck Mississippi and Louisana to get there. No thanks. Besides illegal searches, they steal your cash and your car by using asset forfeiture laws. NO need for a conviction, just gotta say they think the money is from illegal sources. It’s up to you to pay a lawyer $10K to prove the money came from legal sources to get your car and money back, so most people just walk away from it.
No way in hell am I ever driving to a festival in the Confederate States again. It’s a different country down there. They even got a different flag!
There’s a reason they call most of those flyover states… 🙁
Reblogged this on floatingsheep and commented:
To Know.
authority can do what ever they feel like if you are not sure of your rights. I was at mtn jam at hunter mtn NY last week end I have been sober for 3 years. i had woke Saturday morning sitting in my 75 VW camper when I had 7 undercover agents approach me. my bus was loaded with 6 boxes of shirts that i was planning on vending at shows ( i decided not to vend at this festival because security was so bad). I had nothing illegal in my vehicle just boxes of shirts. I was asked to empty out my vehicle because of vending without a permit. the more i argued with them the more they decided to confiscate from me i asked to see a badge they would just take more. after picking and choosing what they wanted my wristband was cut and I was escorted off the property. after it was all done they had taken around $1000 worth of shirts with no ticket and no proof of selling illegally. i was by myself so they were able to coerce me a little more since i was unable to risk loosing all my merchandise. a vending without a permit ticket may have run me $250. in the end the only crime that was committed was by the undercover officers that stole from me.
Know where you are for instance number 4 can get tricky in lets say nyc where there is stop and frisk
I was walking along outside the Omni in Atlanta when a cop stopped me and ask if I had a ticket. I told him I did . he ask me to show it to him, I did and he let me go on. I know places don’t like it when people show up without tickets but that was bullshit. must have been the tie dye shirt.
On nearly every ticket I’ve purchased it states clearly by purchasing this ticket you are subjecting yourself and all your belongings to search. My understanding of this is that this event is a pubic event being held by a private organization and they have a right to search you at will if you want to attend. If you don’t want to be subjected to a search you can leave the event. Thoughts on this?
Your bags and belongings may be searched upon entry by security into just about any public or private facility, but that does not give the police the right to indiscriminately search you once you are inside. The entry searches are for security purposes and for denial of entry, not for the purposes of getting people arrested.
Ok. So… It is actually illegal to take videos or pictures of a police officer if that’s the law in the county/city/state that your in. HOWEVER you can record them if you say that you think something illegal is taking place. And if they take it away from you/ arrest you/ or make you turn it off/ that’s obstruction of justice. They could get in a lot of trouble for that. ALSO, Cops don’t give you Miranda Rights they give you a Miranda Rights reminder, You always have those rights. Wheater your detained or arrested or just being questioned. You don’t need to say jack shit to them. However if you just remain silent then entire time and you dont defend yourself… they could just arrest you since they dont have any reason to do otherwise and have a probable cause.
No. Actually much of what you just wrote is wrong. I actually wrote a subsequent article about all the attorneys who wrote in to correct me on the video tape issue and why legally they are wrong. For example you say that whether videotaping something is Illegal depends on whether you yell out the magic words “i think something illegal is taking place”.That’s crazy urban legend nonsense. In CA (and anywhere else I know of ) It’s because it’s in a public place.and the only issue is whether you are interfering with the officers. As long as it’s public and you don’t interfere with the cops its’ legal. If you go to “What to do if the Police Stop you at a Festival part 2” and you can read more on that.. In CA,) By the way, I have never seen a successful prosecution for Penal Code 148 (it’s not called Obstruction of Justice but resisting, delay or obstruction of a peace officer.) Obstruction of Justice is a completely different charge and has nothing to do with this. Penal Code 148 is entirely different.
So I’m 47 now in my 20’s I was pulled over all the time they would just make up anything 1time they said my tire tread was too small. How did they know that as I drove by. Then they said they were going to search my car. I said no your not you have no probable cause for that and the cops lost his mind and pulled my door handle so hard it broke off my car. This was before camera phones. Anyway he proceeded to search the car and found a 6 pack of beer. Undrank. I am not a beer fan. And wrote me some ticket. So be careful when you pull the old no probable cause routine. That usually doesn’t go well. That was just one of many.
That was a great article. I thought I already knew my rights but I learned a few things I never knew. Giving this to my kids to read.
Thanks Angel. Be sure to check out some of the other “Know Your Rights” articles here on Showbams and follow me on Twitter or Facebook to get even more advice!
Thank you, Festival Lawyer, for taking the time to educate the lay person regarding our rights, and how to protect ourselves in situations dealing with the police. This is such valuable information that the average person, like myself, would never have known if I wouldn’t have ran across your article. I consider myself relatively intelligent, as a college-educated Registered Nurse, but thinking I don’t have anything to hide could have potentially hurt me tremendously. Scary! Please continue to pass on this invaluable information, and, I have to add, the comments are really interesting and helpful as well! THANK YOU!!!!
Hi Nancy. Thanks! the response was great to this article, which lead to me doing a lot of new articles with Showbams. Be sure to check them out and follow me on Twitter or Facebook to get even more advice!
Hello there! This post could not be written any better!
Reading this post reminds me of my previous room mate!
He always kept talking about this. I will forward this post to
him. Pretty sure he will have a good read. Thanks for sharing!
I savor, cause I discovered exactly what I used to be having a look for. You have ended my 4 day lengthy hunt! God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye
Thanks for your great information, the contents are quiet interesting.I will be waiting for your next post.
auto dealer license
To get you started on your legal research, Google the phrase “Terry Stop”. The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), This is the case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly DETAIN a person if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the suspect is involved in criminal activity.
Hi Anonymous guy. You are wrong. You are thinking of the standard for a “detention”. The standard for a detention is “Reasonable articulable suspicion”. The standard for an arrest is and has always been “probable cause”. I don’t really like to feed the trolls. But I am concerned someone reading this might not know you have no idea what you are talking about. PS Clown college was awesome. But it was my 20+ years of being a prosecutor and defense attorney that honed my clown/mime skills.
Thanks…we’ll look into it.
Hey, I really liked your articles re: interactions with police at festivals. It might be useful to do a similar one on different types of security you might meet, from volunteers to private security to police, and how to cooperate with them while maintaining your rights. I feel like I could deal with the actual police now, but private security has way less integrity and tends to just do whatever they want.
Actually, we do live in a police state. Thanks to the Patriot Act, we don’t have rights. I wish more Americans would recognise what’s happening. We need to repeal the Patriot Act. I was stopped at a “road check”–completely illegal per the 4th Amendment but legal in the state where I live. When I asked the officer if I was being detained, he just said yes. When I asked him why he refused to tell me. I wouldn’t let the officer search my car so he just slapped me w/a ticket for “not wearing my seatbelt properly” and now I have to go to court. Since then, I’ve been followed a lot by the police. Seems that the mayor in my city has some special police unit that’s supposedly looking out for drug dealers and that was the type of cop who’d stopped me. I don’t take drugs, rarely even drink alcohol, but there ya’ go…
I spoke w/an attorney who said she could tell me what the cops could legally do or not do but that the cop could still disobey the law anyhow. In other words, the cop could have arrested me, beaten me up, God knows what–when I’d refused to allow my car to be searched and it would just be my word against his. Do a search on police brutality on youtube and you’ll see what I mean. Yes, it may be illegal for the cop to detain you without probable cause but that doesn’t stop cops from doing it anyway. The Patriot Act allows them to do pretty much whatever they want.
People like you make me weep for our society. The Patriot Act had nothing to do with you being stopped in your car for not wearing your seatbelt, nor does it have anything to do with the police using roadside checking stations for enforcement. Both practices were in place decades prior to the Patriot Act and are Constitutional. Like it or not, the act of driving a motor vehicle on a PUBLIC road is highly regulated by the states and Federal government. You have a lot less Constitutional protections driving a car than you do walking down a sidewalk. Also, please learn the difference between probable cause and reasonable and articulable suspicion before you post.
Dan, this is not a Politico message board. The idea is to have a respectful conversation about some important issues. You don’t run this message board so please refrain from scolding people or telling them, “think about this before you post” it’s disrespectful. So is hyperbole like telling people that they make you “weep for society”.
It seems like you have knowledge and information that would be great to be part of this dialogue. I really encourage you to join in. The Festival Lawyer articles and website and mission statement is all about getting information to people, sharing ideas and talking about what our Rights (and Responsibilities) are as citizens and festival goers.
On the other hand, I find that when conversation start to turn to hyperbole (You make me weep for society) or to snark (you are so dumb you shouldn’t be allowed to post that opinion) It really doesn’t advance the conversation and when the rhetoric ramps up the discourse suffers and everyone stops listening. If we don’t police ourselves we end up having to delete comments or ban users or a bunch of other stupid stuff I don’t want to see done here.
It’s hard because I am huge fan of the First Amendment and believe anyone should be able to express any damn opinion they want. On the other hand, I find that if we don’t monitor and watch how we talk to each other on the message boards then it becomes a bunch of name calling and the value of the conversation gets wrecked. So please consider that when you post again. thanks.
As to your point about there being a big gulf between Reasonable suspicion and Probable Cause.. I agree that traditionally all the cases on traffic stops and so called “Terry” stops have used “Reasonable Suspicion” as the standard but the more conservative members of the Supreme Court have gone back to saying “Probable Cause” as the standard even for these detentions. Let me cut and paste from a brief to see what I mean.
Justice Scalia, .wrote (for a unanimous Court, where the issue was the lawfulness of a traffic stop) “the decision to stop an automobile [without a warrant] is reasonable where the police have probable cause to believe a traffic violation has occurred.” Whren, supra, fn.1, @ 810 ], accord Maryland v. Wilson (1997) 519 U.S. 408, 413 [traffic stop means there is “probable cause to believe that the driver has committed a minor vehicle offense….“…[A] random traffic stop…involves police intrusion without probable cause that is its traditional justification. [Italics are the Court’s.] Our opinion in Prouse expressly distinguished the case from a stop based precisely on what is at issue here: ‘probable cause to believe [a traffic violation has been committed].’” Id. “[T]hey involve seizures without probable cause. [¶] Where probable cause has existed….” Id., @818. “The making of a traffic stop out of uniform …is governed by the usual rule that probable cause to believe the law has been broken [is required].” Id., @818.
The point is. I agree that the Court normally uses reasonableness but I think a clear minority of conservatives would tend to make “reasonableness” and “Probable Cause” mean same thing.
Hold on a second. I’m not the one politicizing this board. The person I responded to was. Attempting to link a traffic stop they were party to for not wearing a seat belt, a clear violation of the law in all 50 states that I’m aware of, to their belief that the country has become a police state because of the Patriot Act is beyond ridiculous. Are there times that the police over reach, of course there are. But this notion that pervades this message board that the police are going around hassling innocent people all the time is wrong. Just about every story I’ve read on here about people being “wronged” usually starts with them doing something stupid that draws the officers attention to them, ie the post about Swim under this one.
What is the case citation for the Scalia brief? I would like to read that because I believe there may be more to that than a traffic stop because it mentions an officer out of uniform.
To clarify. I am not telling you to be less political. I am encouraging you to be nicer/more constructive when you comment. The comment you made, “please learn the difference between probable cause and reasonable and articulable suspicion before you post” is not something I would EVER say to someone on here. I also would never tell someone that their very existence makes me “weep for society”. If you feel that way, I encourage you to start your own website, “Dan Jones explains to you why what you did was stupid and you should have not attracted the officer’s attention to yourself in the first place”. (I would totally read that website by the way)
(Sorry in advance for this being so long)
Festival Lawyer,
I wanted to get your thoughts on something that happened to swim this past weekend at YMSB’s Harvest Festival in NW Arkansas.
Swim was walking down shakedown with his girlfriend and was making sure all the good people had a chance to try the amazing dose that was going around. He was saying the typical, “doses” in the ear of whoever looked like they may be interested. Somewhere along the way the wrong people heard and swim was approached by a member of festival security (not police officers) of an atv who had a team of three or four other non-police, festival security following on foot. They demanded to know what swim was doing and what he had. Swim didn’t want to stick around to talk to them so he simply let them know he was just going back to him camp site and tried to quickly walk away. They caught up to him and grabbed his wrist and said we can do this the easy way and you can give us what you have or you can run and we’ll have ten guys on top of you in less than two min. Not knowing what to do, Swim handed over the contents of his right pocket. After looking at the jar containing about 30 pieces of white paper they put swim in handcuffs. Swim could not believe what was happening as he was walked to their golf cart. All he could do was look his gf in the eye and tell her he loves her very much. His gf asked where they were taking swim and they responded they were turning him over to the county police. Swim’s gf asked swim what she should do and he asked her to call his parents. Swim knew it was best to get everything on the table before going to jail so he told them he has more contraband in his left pocket. They asked what it was and he said a pipe… In the heat of the moment swim forgot about the small amount of cocaine also in his left pocket. As soon as they removed that, swims heart sunk even further.
The head of the security team approached and discussed with the members of his team detaining swim. By the grace of god the decided to remove the handcuffs from swim and let him know this was his one free get out of jail card but he must now leave the festival. They cut off his wristband and let him go. Swim shook their hand, thanked them and then packed up his camp and left feeling humbled but also with a new found lease on life.
Swim cannot completely wrap his head around why they decided to let him go. He feels it’s a combination of him not having much on him, being cooperative, and them already having turned over enough people to the local authorities to prove to them they aren’t allow a open air drug market.. Shortly before swim was released, he did overhear the head of security say, “we already have enough of them this weekend”.
What are your thoughts on this situation? Since swim still has his freedom he feels like he did everything right but still wonders what a lawyer would say. Did they have any right to handcuff and detail swim? Should swim have turned himself over so easy? Do you agree with swims thoughts of why he was leg go? Have you ever heard of something like this before?
Thanks,
Mr. Lucky
People should google what DRE training is..my ex-stepfather taught cops and FBI on the east coast for years to be DRE (Drug Recognition Experts)..they would go to shows and find kids messed up on whatever, question them, and let them go (as it was a training class). I remember when he came back one night and said “I hung out with that Snoop Dog guy, he was pretty cool”. Anyways..they can SPOT fucked up people, and if they are certified DRE, that is probable cause. Period.
Wear sunglasses.
I wish I had read this article a few years ago. Picture this…two 40ish-50ish women (one who home schools her kids and one who is a Sunday School teacher) on their way to a festival get pulled over for “speeding” about 5 miles past the point of where said speed was violated. No ticket was issued for this offense but this “over zealous” small town cop called in a drug dog while he was running my license and the dog “indicated.” What I saw was the cop tap on the side of my vehicle and before you know it, we were asked if they could search our vehicle.
I politely agreed as I we are law abiding adults and never stopped like this before. Before you know it, there were 3 more cars and everything we had was piled on the side of the highway as they rifled through our bags. Once they saw my friend had a tattoo they were relentless that we fit some type of profile. Seriously? Ultimately they found a bottle of patchouli oil that my friend had and little did either of us know it, that would result in a positive test for marijuana….all they needed to charge her with possession.
Long story short this cost my friend $5,000 from a local “festival lawyer” who was a part of the money making machine. I appreciate an honest attorney coming forward with the type advice my friend’s attorney should have given her.